Mr. Bernard Allen, FG: Electronic voting is a good idea but this system has been badly thought through and public confidence has been badly shaken by a Government unwilling to listen to anyone but its own so-called experts. The Government has called the introduction of this system a step forward, a point reiterated by the Minister. I submit that it is a retrograde step based on insufficient knowledge on the use of technology. The Minister has a new toy and thought everyone would like it. They do not. The Irish Computer Society said: ‘Any electronic voting system must include a paper-based voter-verified audit trail.’ The Minister in his arrogance recently said these people were cranks and Luddites.
Mr. Bernard Durkan, FG: Are they cranks?
Mr. Martin Cullen, FF: They are linked to the anti-globalisation movement. The Deputy should check them out. They are all the same.
Mr. Allen: It is all a–
Mr. Cullen: If Fine Gael bases its policies on such people, it is no wonder it is in decline.
Mr. Durkan: The people concerned are computer experts.
Mr. Allen: We do not know what the Minister’s policies are and where he stands on any matter.
Mr. Paul Kehoe, FG: The Minister should know more about policy having been a member of more than one party.
Mr. Allen: Irish technology experts have told the Government its system must include a paper-based voter-verified audit trail.
Mr. Cullen: They are not experts in this field.
Mr. Allen: The Minister has made a serious allegation about genuine people–
Mr. Cullen: They are not accredited to anything. They have no expertise or international accreditation.
(Interruptions).
Mr. Michael Ring, FG: Fianna Fáil are experts on everything. They have filled every tribunal in the country.
Mr. Allen: The Minister has come to this House and–
Acting Chairman (Jerry Cowley, Ind): Deputy Allen should direct his comments through the Chair.
Mr. Allen: The Chair should ask the Minister to cease interrupting.
Mr. Cullen: Such comments are pathetic. It is no wonder Fine Gael is in such a disorderly state.
Mr. Ring: Fianna Fáil are the experts.
Acting Chairman: I remind Members that this is not a Committee Stage debate. We are dealing with Second Stage and I ask Deputies to allow Deputy Allen to continue without interruption, please.
Mr. Allen: The Minister has vilified people who cannot protect themselves.
Mr. Durkan: Outside the House.
Mr. Allen: The Minister should withdraw the allegation against–
Mr. Cullen: I have not vilified them. I said they are not accredited–
Mr. Allen: The Minister said they are linked to the anti-globalisation movement and suggested we should check them out.
Mr. Cullen: Yes, they are.
Acting Chairman: Deputy Allen, please continue.
Mr. Allen: The Minister should withdraw that allegation against people who cannot protect themselves.
Mr. Cullen: I will not.
Acting Chairman: Deputy Allen, please continue.
Mr. Durkan: The Minister has cast aspersions on people outside this House. In accordance with Standing Orders–
Mr. Cullen: I think they are proud of their links.
Mr. Durkan: On a point of order, the making of such an allegation is not in accordance with the Standing Orders of this House. Perhaps the Minister would like to comment.
Acting Chairman: The Chair has ruled on that matter.
Mr. Durkan: With respect, the Chair has no authority to rule on this matter. Standing Orders apply.
Acting Chairman: That Chair has ruled on the matter.
Mr. Durkan: No, I am sorry, I do not agree. On a point of order, the Minister has cast aspersions–
Mr. Cullen: I paid them a compliment.
Mr. Durkan: The Minister has cast aspersions on people outside this House.
Mr. Cullen: They will regard my remarks as a compliment, a badge of honour.